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This area is for open dialogue, I've been answering lots of questions about guys getting their wives interested in FLR. Share your experiences, I'll try and help.
Author: 2011-03-02 12:02:30 [reply]
A wiseman once told me that EVERYONE has something worth listening too and when you listen enough you will get smarter. We value the ideas and opinions of our readers on the topic of "FLR guys chatting about becoming better mates - Issues in female led relationships. "True genius resides in the capacity for evaluation of uncertain, hazardous, and conflicting information." Winston Churchill (British Orator, Author and Prime Minister during World War II. 1874-1965)
Alright I am game. Is it possible to have a FLR where she has basic control of at least three food groups,but refuses to acknowlege that she is in a FLR? The follow up question is as a male in a non-acknowledged FLR,what help can you offer, to help me keep giving up my rights. Specifically my free-time which is now disproportionately spent doing housework, childcare,cooking, not masterbating and, etc ? The follow up-up question is is it wrong not wrong but selfish to want/need acknowlegement. Thank you, gat1207
Author: 2011-03-02 14:26:31 [reply]
Gat1207 according to the website you are not in an FLR On the home page I found this quote "It requires that a woman "lead" a man and that both man and woman make acknowledgement of those roles. Without those three things you are NOT in a female led relationship." - what you need is to have a heart to heart with her.
Reply by: 2011-03-02 17:09:31 [reply]
guest; thank you for the quotation which better expresses my exact point... i am not in a flr and if Iam honest about it my need to serve needs enouragement. So my question stands how to I change this sisuation? I will post more information last nights fact pattern later today when I have more time. searching, gat1207
Author: 2011-03-03 05:40:02 [reply]
Gat1207 When I came up with the idea of levels to describe female led relationships I used 3 indexes. 1. control of the 5 food groups. 2. interest in FLR and 3. interest in kink. I assigned a threshold (starting point) of 3 things being true 1. the women must be leading a man. 2. the man must want her leadership. and 3. the couple but both acknowledge their roles. Consider for a minute the infamous 50/50 relationship. I think we all know there are 't any of these really set to 50/50. Some things in life tip towards one mate or the other. So if you look at partnership in finances the scale would be different from partnership in household chores. This kind of scaling helps everyone see where they are at. All that said, sit down with your partner and talk about where you are today, where you want to be in the future and listen to her. Surely you can decide on a course of action.
Part 2 of my advice to you is "most" women don't want to or can't lead in a relationship for many reasons. My estimate of 9% of all women being candidates comes form our cultural understanding of personality matching and leadership types. Your mate might want you to lead her, she might not believe in leadership in relationships and she might not be able to see beyond her idea of what relationships look like.I hope this helps.
Reply by: 2011-03-03 09:51:00 [reply]
Administrator: First let me apologize about the bad typing this morning. I was on a new lap-top which was driving me crazy and thank you for the explanation of the sliding scale. I believe that you have hit upon the right issue when you state: “Your mate might want you to lead her… and she might not be able to see beyond her idea of what relationships look like.” We have had at least a few conversations about the FLR issue. She in fact took one of the assessments posted on this site. (We were not able to get a true score but from her answers she would have scored about middle.) I believe that she has issues with being caught in what she has been taught is a correct relationship. You have a wonderful section on how to un-teach/re-socialize the male, on which I need a lot of work, but from what I can find little information about female re-socialization. Some insight on that issue would be great. In reading back over what I have written, I am not sure she needs to be re-socialized as much as I would like her to be more comfortable in letting loose her ideas of what her “duties” include and the actual duty, for instance some of the chores. (She for the first time in many years is back in school and doesn’t need the stress of that junk.) How do I get her comfortable in letting loose and beyond actually asking that they be done by me? Looking to be a better mate and if lucky a better FLR man gat1207
Author: 2011-03-03 11:38:08 [reply]
Gat1207 By the way who wrote that step 6 beta male section. Ouch...I the words of another site be careful of what you wish for. I hope it is ok to multiple post gat1207
Reply by: 2011-03-03 11:57:57 [reply]
Gat1207 The cool thing about FLR is it is not a dead end, if you tried something and it failed you are not locked into it because you have a relationship with someone you love and loves you. ;-)
Reply by: 2011-03-03 12:49:39
Gat1207 When confidence grows so does FLR. She needs small wins in the direction she wants, that will build confidence for bigger wins. At worst FLR means she gets some respect and help, at most she gets what she wants in life (which may be different than what you want). Ultimately she will be the who she is now with a better understanding of relationship dynamics and some practice at getting what she wants in life. Women are not socialized to get what they want or share their expectations. Life coaching/mentoring and experimentation, not re-socialization, changes that for women. Re-socialization is to change one's self-image and social-image, she does not need that, she needs confidence, love and appreciation. I would be willing to counsel and communicate directly with her to answer any questions she may have. Use the contact form.
Reply by: 2011-03-03 12:46:17 [reply]
Admin Thank you all for the information. This is a great place to be and overall that was mostly painless. I hope to use the information gained well. i will pass on the offer of communication. I am trying to not be to/so pushy so please bear with. sincerely gat1207
Reply by: 2011-03-04 02:55:27
Just a quick note to say good morning to all and to quary Does anyone have a good idea for the new week? I am flat out of ideas. Spring break for the kiddos is fast approaching. I hope to do a day trip anyone else have any ideas? Good day to all gat1207
Author: 2011-03-07 11:49:40 [reply]
Gat1207 What I am doing is creating an accountability group for men to work at being better FLR kind of men. There is much that can be accomplished on the males side that is filled with rewards for women and men. It should be ready Wednesday this week. Does working on ourselves make us better mates?
Reply by: 2011-03-08 15:19:28 [reply]
Gat1207 What I am doing in creating a program where men can acquire a score to show how much they really want FLR and are working towards it and satisfying their women. A badge of honor. With the same effort we use to talk we can develop our score that help us realize where we are and how far we have to go. The score will include activities, reading, writing and sharing ideas with others in FLR. This score will also be used in introductions between men and women looking for new relationships.
Reply by: 2011-03-08 15:23:38 [reply]
Wow...me I was just going to try and do the laundry without shrinking a blouse or two:) An accountability group?...I don't know if I like the sound of that. Who would I be accountable to and what if my account does not add up? I look forward to learning more details. Now "badges of honor"...Now that I can get my head around...Oh but what about Monte Python. Do I get to score or does she get to score me. What about both of us scoring and then I can objectively see the ups and downs. I also look forward to this project. To become a better person what a goal. Thank you both gat1207 ps day trip planned, next is the execution. happy children and happy women wish me luck!
Author: 2011-03-10 12:29:17 [reply]
Gat1207 Check it out, accountability begins with you and you are the solution to the problem. You'll be all smiles
Reply by: 2011-03-10 18:34:35 [reply]
Prickly Pear I have had an opportunity to look at the new information. I believe in taking pledges very seriously. I have questions about the first pledge. Like does this page constitue porn? Are other discussion groups and blogs, some much more graphic than this site, porn? Let me give the examples of "chasity forum" or "keyheld". A very serious group of people who are serious about what they do and how they do it but there are graphic stories and pictures. What about the site "art or porn" which is directly on point and addresses this very subject. I jested about accountability and badges but I know that I cannot throw any stones. I am wary. sincerely gat1207
Reply by: 2011-03-12 16:28:13
Gat1207 No we don't believe that discussing relationships, personal/health choices or sex openly such as blogs or sites designed as interactive can be defined as porn, in fact we openly encourage discussion and have no issues with even graphic depictions on any other website - just not this one (as we choose not to). We believe in free speech used responsibly.
(Michael wrote this) "We define porn as an industry which models/emulates sex and sexual relationships for profit. Thus armatures (true armatures who don't sell anything) are just expressing their ideas "however graphic" with their free speech. Thus naked images don't needfully become porn, some may be artistic, expressions of pop culture of just a study in the human form. But porn cannot escape it is "for profit" involvement in fetish and sex; which delivers no value of any kind to anyone buying their product. It is just a big tease and destructive to everyone who touches it including those in the industry."
Not to sound hypocritical but we as an organization also don't advocate government control or censorship of porn. We believe that men can stop looking at it and cause the money they would spend on porn to flow to better causes.
Reply by: 2011-03-12 17:49:10
Prickly Pear I joined, it looks good. No worries about it being prechy it seems straight forward and logical.
Reply by: 2011-03-12 17:51:23
Feeling over used and under appericated. She hasn't had to pull/push the cart in a long time. Maybe some time in the salt mine would help her remember. gat1207
Author: 2012-02-09 13:26:36 [reply]
I am on our second attempt at a FLR. This time it is going much better. The first attempt failed because my wife felt too much pressure in having to make decision all the time. She has always been the type to leave everything up to me, even where to go out to eat. This time I told her that all good leaders delegate and it was OK to ask me to make decisions as she would always have the final say. She is gradually making more and more of the daily decisions for us so that is going well. I think I rushed it the first time. She was raised by a strict father that rule the house so she is used to being the submissive one and felt that her role in our marriage was to please me. To give you an idea, all I had to do is ask her to get me a glass of milk and some cookies and she would get up and get it or if we were eating and I had no napkin, upon asking if there were napkins on the table she would jump up and get them and apologize. Very hard to break these bad habits. However, although I am topping from the bottom as they say, I am gently guiding her every time she does something that I can do for myself. Either I will pre-empt her or gently remind her that I could do the task for her. Today I started a discussion about what other things I could do for her and we added folding the laundry, keeping her car filled with gas and windshield wiper fluid, clean the shower after she uses it, and set the table for dinner each night. She readily agreed and I got to fold the laundry, clean her shower and today will take care of her car. Right now she has me give her nightly foot massages that have lasted up to 2 hours at a time. For the first time she let me put nail polish on her toe nails and shave her legs. Next time she will let me do her fingernails. She has also bought a girly apron and insist that I wear it while doing the dishes. For her foot rubs she makes me wear panties that she bought for me. It started as a practical reason because the foot oil was staining my pants because she lays down on the couch and places her feet on my lap. She says she also likes how it makes my package look. So things are looking up and she is getting more and more into it as she becomes accustomed to not feeling fulfilled only when serving my needs. 3 weeks ago she was complaining about how I did not become very erect during sex and she asked some questions. Apparently she was not aware of how much men think of sex and masturbate. Although she has not issues with porn, she only wanted me to orgasm with her and come to the game ready and able each time. It took a week or two to convince her that although I always wanted to orgasm during sex, I really wanted to wait. She understood that but was having problems in figuring out how look to wait. I told her to get a die and throw it and that is the number of days I have to wait. She liked that idea as it took the pressure off of her as to when to allow me to orgasm. Neither she or I want to deprive me of orgasms for long periods of time as she gets as much pleasure as I do making each other orgasm. The next hurdle was getting her used to orgasm while denying me. She has taken to that very well and will usually get all worked up teasing and denying me, after which I orally please her. She also asks me to massage her often and we even bought some massage equipment to make it more comfortable for her. It takes a lot of will power from me to not jump on her while rubbing her naked body but I am getting better at it. So far, the lowest number she has rolled is 4. I am hoping that low numbers pop up more often. So far, my release day has been during a weekday rather than a weekend when I am not tired and we have more time. Hopefully the odds will make things right. My wife has declared herself to be in charge of our marriage and just hearing her say that was great. She is enjoying all the things I am doing for her but is somewhat overwhelmed with the attention I am paying to her and would like to reign it in with the talk about FLR and constant kissing and holding her. So that is the next issue to overcome. She is basically uncomfortable talking about sex or personal matters for that matter. We have been married a very long time and I still do not know her as well as I know friends who share their fears, desires and wants. All I have to go on is what I see. That is an issue I would like her to address. So there you have it, the issues and challenges we faced and where we are now. We are not into D/S other than during sex. During the day she asks me to do things and thanks me for doing them. Sometimes she makes is sound like she is asking me if I would want to do something rather than expecting me to do it unquestionably. We are working on that too. So it is a work in process. Male Chastity was not part of our first attempt at FLR but since I introduced the idea to my wife, it has helped tremendously to give her the sense of power and control she was lacking. She no longer feels sorry for me and makes me wait. She has also given me double orgasms twice in November by teasing and ruining my orgasm which leaves me ready and able to go again immediately. She likes that and it is what she strives for on the days I am allowed to reach orgasm. She also likes the intensity of my orgasms and condition of my penis when I have not been masturbating all week so she says she wants to stick with the tease and denial aspect of our FLR. She also likes me doing more than I used to around the house. She has expressed a concern about giving me too much to do and leaving her with little to do. She is pretty much a homebody and wants things to keep her busy and also likes to keep a nice house that draws comments from visitors. So it is basically a balancing act as to how much I do. I explained that she should view herself as a manager and do whatever she wants to do and assign the rest to me under her supervision. We will see how that goes. Hopefully the issues that came up in our FLR and how we resolved them will be helpful to others. It may sound boring to some because we are not into locking me up in a chastity device, using corporal punishment (after all it was my idea so if I did not want to abide by the rules, I was free to just call it quits and therefore should not need to be punished). However, she once did paddle me to try it out and the bruises she left on my butt scared her off. I kind of liked them but she has not repeated that since.
Author: 2013-12-01 00:14:58 [reply]
I keep reading about guys who are basically telling their wives how to lead. Guys say they NEED something (usually kinky) but do they really? They often have good reasoning for what they want and use their influence to get their mate to do it. Well it might be natural in some cases where women respond to please their mate (I do that all the time) and it might be manipulation (getting a woman to do what you want). I feel a better way is tell your mate what you want and let her decide what to do and lead from there. It seems so much more grow up to me.
Author: 2013-12-28 20:10:24 [reply]