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For my money there would be many more women interested in FLR if we got rid of FemDom, sissification and humiliation. These three things make is bad for everyone. If men stood up for FLR and got rid of those three things by no longer supporting them we'd see many more women participate.
Author: 2011-03-02 12:11:27 [reply]
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I think you need to carefully define what you mean by FemDom. If you are talking about professional dominatrixes and related commercial sites and porn, that is one thing. However, the FLR community on the internet is fragmented into sub-communities each with its own preferred terms for discussing this topic. FemDom is one of the terms used for what this site describes as a Level 3 or 4 FLR. There are blogs run by married women who exchange ideas with each other. Some of the women are sissifying their husbands. It may be retribution for the way the women were treated in the earlier years of their marriages (as one of the women wondered on her blog recently) or for their FLR's having started by their discovery of their husbands' misconduct. But the women are doing it. In some cases they also engage in humiliation. One woman put a child's hair ribbon on her husband after he backtalked her to punish him by humiliation. Your four levels may not be enough to describe the range of FLRs. There could be a Level 3- a level 3+, a level 4- and a level 4+. The Level 3 being described in the article series sounds like a 3-. There is one blog that talks about their "femdom flr". They would probably be a 3+ or a 4-. The blogs with sissification and humiliation might be 4+. But they are all loving, married couples and all really FLR's.
Author: 2011-03-04 17:45:25 [reply]
Nerd I am not sure there is any harm in the world if I am not careful for thinking FemDom is different than FLR. I think just the opposite, my not being careful helps everyone discuss it openly. What I mean is FLR was created as a term to be separated from FemDom. FemDom and all its camelCase conjures up images of corsets and whips and naked men on leashes while FLR does not. I get what you said and appreciate it but I firmly believe language is important, words have meanings and either people take back FemDom as a term which is not likely or we abandoned it to its own fait and separate FLR from it. I am not suggesting that any other website change their language to suit the one we use. I think FLR needs to be separated from FemDom and every other fetish because those things don't describe female leadership in interpersonal relationships very well. Millions of women could join FLR who would otherwise shy away from FemDom because of the language and the focus on relationships. It is just my very loud opinion, and I think an important difference.
BTW I am really okay with other web sites having other language about their experiences. I never meant to imply any other website was not practicing FLR, as you say they may be and just describe it differently. I am not trying to come down on FemDom either per say. FemDom has some comparable experiences and topical information. This website is new and the ideas a little different to very different. We tend to take the relationship approach and minimize the sexual approach because it makes the subject easier to discuss and more comparable with our human experience. I personally believe it would be nice to centralize the language of FLR to make life easier on all but I am not so arrogant to assume we have the best language to describe it. We at aboutFLR.com all agreed to continue to use 'common language' where we can and descriptive language where we cannot and go our own way until we find common ground with others interested in the topic of females leading males in interpersonal relationships. We are in no way opposed to level 4 or 5 or 6 but we are attempting to reinvent the language around FLR so it will have a greater impact to a wider audience. This website is part of a much larger project of relationship web sites by people who appreciate you and your opinion, love life and a good healthy spirited debate, and usually have strong opinions of our own.
Reply by: 2011-03-05 23:25:12 [reply]
Admin amen, preach it! lets get back to normal and love and caring and growing and far far away from all the domme crap
Reply by: 2011-03-20 10:05:31
Admin I have to admit that although I have approached this mode of thought based on some other sites, I had not really gotten it right in my head until I read about the notions of FLR Light/Dark. I think that for me, a male internet femdom porn addict (recovering, hopefully), this framework has really begun to take root and helped to reorient my thinking. As with any effort of this sort, it will take some time to completely embrace, but it is quite a relief so far.
Reply by: 2011-08-22 03:58:09
The deal that irks me is when men keep bringing up punishment and chastity like it was all they were ever going to do, every blog, every website, every where men telling how she popped him in the ass or trained him to lay down or bow or kneel, wow is that strange. Why make that the big deal instead of loving your wife or helping her deal with life?
Author: 2011-03-20 10:03:46 [reply]
The obsession and over-attachment to sexual compatibility as the basis for a relationship makes about as much sense to me as deciding such things based on shampooing technique. What if the social norm was to partner up based on shampoo practices: How long to shampoo? What kind of shampoo? etc. Ironically, most people actually do spend more time washing hands and hair than engaging in sex anyway. Yet, we as a culture focus one only one sliver of a healthy relationship. FLR correctly puts the focus on creating a REAL LIFE together by addressing the practical needs of a couples relationship. KUDOS!
Author: 2012-02-03 19:32:53 [reply]
I grew up in a female led home. My mum is the take charge type and my dad is more passive and laidback. I remember him doing most of the cooking and cleaning and mum managed the finances and made the major business decisions in their company. He is the best dad to me and the best husband to my mum. I want a man like my father. The biggest turn off for me about submissive men is that most only seem to care about their own fantasies and fetishes. Ironically, its all about them, and they expect the woman to change into their fantasy domme. I don't want to dress in leather and crack a whip just to please him and play along with his fantasy, I don't get anything out of that. In my opinion, a true submissive man should put his woman's desires ahead of his own and be completely selfless, even if it means, giving up his deepest sexual fantasies. Thats why I liked this website. Its about real life, not fetish or porn. Other things that turn me off: men who want me to sleep with other men, men who watch porn or visit pro-dommes, men who wear women's clothes or underwear, men who are gay or bisexual and men who won't submit selflessly. I think the perfect female led relationship is something like a 1950s relationship between a dominant man and a submissive woman but with the gender roles reversed. The man selflessly serves the woman by being attentive to her needs, wants and desires. He doesn't expect her to change into what he wants but changes himself into what she wants. The woman should be his highest priority in life, his life should revolve around her and he should make her happiness his happiness. If submissive men did that, then more women would be open to female led relationships. Well that is just my opinion. Sorry if my english wasn't so good. Its my second language. Thanks.
Author: 2012-06-23 09:42:31 [reply]
Guest I completely agree with what you wrote. SO MANY men THINK they want a FLR but really they want a dominatrix. I believe this is mostly due to the addiction to pornography and the selfishness this creates in a male. Once a male can "justify" in his mind that it's ok that he is being kinky in this way because he is serving his wife, then he is blind to the fact that he is REALLY serving only his own kinky desires, and not truly seeking to be a servant to his wife. I was there, and I approached it that way at first. Now I am approaching it with my wife the CORRECT way, but just starting by building trust and showing her that my ONLY motivation and desire is to serve her, and not my own kinky desires. I am honest that I get satisfaction by being submissive, and I do truly enjoy it (ALWAYS get super rock-ha#@ excited when I massage her, and sometimes even when I'm doing the dishes!!), but it is not because I have an expectation from HER that SHE needs to provide something to ME. I would venture to say that a GOOD FLR needs to be DEVOID of pornography, because there are very few women if any that would want there husband/bf to engage in pornography and they would rather be the source of all of his desire.
Reply by: 2017-06-07 08:02:09 [reply]
I live in a real FLR. In real life we see couples where it is obvious that the man is in charge, the woman is in charge, or they each have equal say. They may not have labels to describe their kind of relationships but they exist naturally anyway. This is especially evident in my retirement community where the men are usually older and are affected by old age earlier than their wives. They go deaf, have problems with their memories and are affected by other physical ailments that prevents them from being in charge of the relationship. It is very common to see the woman ordering food at the restaurant for the man, explaining what was said and running their household and social life. Some provide the illusion that their husband is still in charge while others make no pretense of it. I have a relative who is on her third husband. She always marries very submissive men and bosses them around in public, even telling them to keep their mouths shut in conversations with others. So a FLR is nothing new. What is new is a generation of mostly guys, viewing it as a sexual fantasy and extending it beyond its real meaning into a chastity and D/S sexual relationship. To me, although a big fan of playing D/S games for a long time, do not consider D/S a FLR but rather a sexual lifestyle that by its very nature has the women in charge. To me, a FLR is simply taking a male led relationship and establishing the female as the leader. That should be the only change made. The loving, caring and respectful relationship does not change into a sexual torture one simply because the woman is in charge. In fact, like it or not, most woman are still submissive and even if not, want a strong man as a mate. That is genetic. Few women throughout our long history, seek out submissive men as father's for their children or just for sex fun. Sure there are a few but so few that most men end up posting looking for dominant men and creating an industry of professional dominant women to cater to the demand. At first my wife and I were turned off by what we found on FLR websites. Most were selling books that looked to be designed for men to use to convince their wives/girlfriends, to dominate them. The forums were even worst where it seems that horny guys posted their domination fantasies as if real. For those of us who have engaged in D/S for several decades, it is pretty easy to spot the phony posts because they sound like what is shown in porn movies and never mention the practical things that are part of it in real life. No harm done though. We finally found a few articles by people in real FLRs that did not sound like a D/S fantasy world. What we learned was that we can design our own FLR rather than try to live the ones we read about with the stupid rules and explicit punishments. God, it was so easy to spot the phonies because their rules always were slanted to their particular desired kink of what they wanted to have done to them. Very funny at times to read what they told people must be done. My wife finally realized that by simply switching roles, not much will change so we did it and we were right. So what that she is now leading our relationship. Just as I did not whip her, deny her orgasms, punish here, turn over all household work to her while I sat an watched TV or made her by slave, neither did she do all this to me. We still jointly discussed all major lie decisions and as before, still reached a consensus instead of one of us having to make a solo decision. My wife asks me to do things and then thanks me for doing them just like I used to do with her. The greatest change was in our finances as I tended to spend our money as quickly as I got it thinking that since I made it I had the right to spend it as I saw fit. I voluntarily turned over my credit cards to my wife and asked to be put on an allowance. Now I have money I can spend on things I want but do not need but have to ask to buy any item that cost more than the cash I have saved from my allowance. Of course, when I go out without my wife, she gives me a credit card for emergency use but that is just practical. My wife is not into showing her authority for the sake of just doing so. She still loves me you know. This has worked out great for us and we are now out of credit card debt thanks to my wife and I still have a few man toys to play with. The other area where there was change is in the many mundane decision that are made in any marriage or relationship on a day to day basis. What TV show to watch, which movie to see, what to eat, where to go, who does what chores around the house, etc.. These mundane decisions were very tiresome because we each tended to try to figure out which decision would please the other as we people who love to please the other. This led to going back and forth with each of us asking the other to make the decision until after 5 minutes, one of us would give up and select something that they thought the other would like. It was very tiresome doing this, especially when it really did not matter that much what was chosen. These days I know which things my wife wants me to make decisions on, which she will decide and which we will jointly decide. Of course, we both know that my wife has final say but she rarely veto's my decisions unless there is a good reason such as her hip is hurting her that day and I want to do something that involves a lot of walking. It is also understood that no matter who is in charge, if a decision is made that one person knows will harm the marriage or is unsafe, it is that person's responsibility to do all in their power to prevent that bad decision from hurting us rather than let it go simply because someone is in charge. Our FLR is not a game, sexual or otherwise. It is a recognition that my wife is best suited to run our household and most things in our life, better than me because I am very focused on my work and making enough money in the next few years so we can retire in comfort. BTW, my wife has no say in any decisions that affect my job as that would just be counter productive. Outwardly we just appear as a regular couple where the husband is more attentive to his wife than most others. My wife is not into showing others that she is in charge and thinks that is distasteful. At home the only changes other than financial, are that I have a few more chores to do. My wife is no longer shy about asking for foot and body massages and no longer feels obligated to give me an orgasm when she is not in the mood for sex. Conversely she does not ask me to give her orgasm either if she senses that I am tired after a long day of work or nodding off in my easy chair. As I said, we are still respectful and considerate of each other. I have always given her orgasms without asking for one for myself so that continues. I am not kept in chastity but was asked, and committed to, not masturbating but rather waiting for my wife to decide when we can have sex. This is usually every 2 or three days. This is not because we feel that a horny guy is more submissive but rather because she is not in the mood everyday and we both prefer to have sex when we both will enjoy it together. I kind of like not masturbating anymore because it builds up anticipation and I know that relief is just a few days away. My final comment is that I question whether a male is truly submitting to a woman if sexual release has to be used to keep him submissive, corporal punishment given to enforce his submission or constant displays of the female's power to remind the male that he is her slave. This does not sound like a marriage or loving relationship but more of a fetish game. Nothing wrong with fetish games as I play them all the time and enjoy them but I do not consider them the same kind of relationship as a boyfriend/girlfriend or a marriage. Just my opinion of course. So I want to make others understand that if they are interested in a FLR rather than a D/S relationship, you need to design your own. There are not set rules for it to follow that will be found in books. Just design your FLR so that it works for you. If it means having sex every day, then that is what you should do. Sure it is well known that women can get guys to do as they wish by withholding sex but on the other side of that coin is that a satisfied man is a happy man and therefore wants to please the person who has made him happy. Many men get frustrated when they have no sex and will end up resenting the person who withholds it. We call them cock teases and that is not a positive quality men seek out in a woman unless it is part of their male fantasy which is much better in your mind as you jerk off then in reality where you do not have that opportunity. Similarly, living 24/7 as a slave sounds good but in practice is not so great especially when sex is few and far away. I have been with a few dominant women. True dominant women, those who do it because it gives them pleasure rather then do it to please their man, are hard to come buy if you do not want to pay for it. Just check out the forums to see that for yourself. Those that I played with all looked at me as a weak man and had sex with or married guys that dominated them. What women really wants a wimp for a husband and to have children with. Once again, the reality is not as good as the fantasy. I had a domme for 37 years and she did marry someone else and kept dominating me. We rarely kissed or had any sex other than her ordering me to masturbate. She just enjoyed hurting me and making me her slave. I enjoyed it but it was just an evening of fun sex for both of us and then back to our normal lives. She with her husband and me with my wife. I had my cake and could eat it too. :) You have to ask yourself if you really want a FLR or a D\S relationship. They are not the same and if looking for a D/S relationship, one of the biggest male fantasies and smallest female one, you are better off Googling D/s rather than FLR. Also keep in mind that despite the good advice and best intentions, many of these websites exist to sell you something. You do not get all your answers; just enough to lead you to buy the book. :)
Author: 2013-11-10 11:16:34 [reply]