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Is it true that this is an invention of guys or do women really want to lead relationships?
Author: 2010-12-12 15:13:12 [reply]
I have asked myself this same question. I don't understand how FLR is really female led... In each type talked about the men instigate the FLR relationship. Doesn't the mere act of the man asking his partner to try a FLR mean that the man in the relationship is the true person with the power and is the only person truly in charge?
Author: 2010-12-29 08:02:54 [reply]
It seems to be true that men start FLR conversations more often but I know of several women in my group who did the starting and sought out a man to lead. So men may show more initial interest but women are waking up to the idea.
Author: 2010-12-29 10:15:03 [reply]
My bf asked me to have an FLR and I just don't think it is for me. I have a hard time believing that women want this. I think that women in so called female-led relationships might be trying to make up for past abuse. How many women in these relationships have been abused growing up?
Author: 2011-01-01 16:01:00 [reply]
Imagine a relationship I can design for me and him, where there is zero strife, as much and what kind of sex we want, it is productive and inspiring and best of all I get to make the decisions - where is the down side?
Author: 2011-01-23 07:55:04 [reply]
Beth Ann Raymos I hope it is not just about striff, relationships have two partners who both need things. Make it a better relationship for both of you - right?
Reply by: 2011-02-07 06:11:16 [reply]
I do - you must be kidding, now to find the right guy, maybe I'll have two ;-)
Author: 2011-01-23 07:57:16 [reply]
Ann I have been in both types of relationships, Female Led and Male Led. The Female Led Relationship was by far the most wonderful thing i have ever experienced. It was loving, tender, emotionally satisfying. It was also strict at times. Informative and innovative. And it was Her that instigated it. We did not know what it was called at the time, we just both knew that She was naturally Dominant and i was naturally submissive. i learned and experienced things most only dream of. i miss it and will never go back to the more traditional type of relationship.
Reply by: 2011-02-04 12:38:58 [reply]
I am a high powered white collar criminal defense attorney. Very successful. However, I note I am unorganized, undisciplined and make a lot of the same mistakes repeatedly. I sincerely believe that women are natural leaders and take leadership more seriously, usually without any ego. I think we have trained the girls since teenage years to be more "motherly" which literally translates to more organized and with a sense of leadership and obligation. I adore the women who have been in my life, but, had I been more honest with them, I'd still be married. I needed them to be dominant in the house, in the relationship, and in my career as well. Joining this site was my first step. mark
Reply by: 2011-04-28 14:58:34
well the best relationship i ever had was with a woman who controlled every aspect of our relationship. I was more confident and secure with her then any other relationship before or after her. I really would like to meet the right woman and be in a FLR again.
Author: 2011-01-24 14:53:12 [reply]
I have a nomally FLR however being that I do ad requested without much if any obvioud "femdom" attributes. I still go to football etc but pretty much do as my wife wants when she wants, however she is not too particuar so you probably would not notice between me and most men - apart from the fact i would do as i was told
Author: 2011-01-26 17:10:11 [reply]
I think I do. When I first started dating in my teens, I wanted to be the one who picked up the check at dinner and buy the gifts; and I always valued a men's sensitivity and looks over his earning potential or 'toughness.' My first boyfriend was actually insulted and threatened when I gave him a gift (a bouquet of chocolate chip cookies--it's not like they were pink carnations with a stuffed, beribboned mauve elephant attached:) and a college date told me that he didn't want a wife who worked--this was in the 1990s, mind you! Yep, that relationship didn't last long. I always felt like a square peg when it came to dating, so (save for one heated, memorable affair with a male dancer in my early 20s), I pretty much stopped. I have seen a couple of male companions/courtesans in recent years, as they are charming, handsome, and much more agreeable to a woman taking the lead. Otherwise I fly solo.
Author: 2011-01-29 05:19:25 [reply]
Goldenmuse You be happy to note there are at least 10 men for every women out there right now looking for FLR - that should keep you busy and happy.
Reply by: 2011-01-29 05:38:20 [reply]
Randell Thanks Randell!:) That's good to know; guess I just need to start looking in the right places.
Reply by: 2011-01-29 06:22:47
I do believe that some people are born to lead and some are born to follow. Unfortunately through human-history men have always been cast in the leadership role. Men growup adapting all the traits associated with being manly. They are terrified of being thought of as anything less than "The Manly Man". Men who reveal their need for a FLR to a spouse or girlfriend do so at what they perceive to be great risk to their image. But men are a somewhat pleasure-seeking species. If a wife/gf is not diligent a man in a FLR will undoubtly try to 'top from the bottom' to turn this relationship into his sexual fantasy. A couple entering this type of relationship should throughly discuss the basic scope of their FLR relationship and the authority of the wife/gf. I think most men will need to be trained for a period of time to learn how to be a loving, supportive, and obedient spouse. Training is kinda like child-rearing....you instill your values through teaching them "Right from Wrong". A man who is learning his place in a FLR probably feels very exposed and vulnerable...his wife/gf has a huge responsibility to him....he needs to trust her completley and know in his heart that she loves and cares for him and will always be there for him. ahumanishere
Author: 2011-02-09 08:52:59 [reply]
There are several blogs and sites on the internet that discuss FLRs. There seem to be four ways FLRs are initiated: 1. Initiated by husband or boyfriend. These seem to be the most numerous. Several sites offer advice to men on proposing an FLR or to women on how to respond. 2. Woman grows up in FLR household, learns from mother, and continues as adult. 3. Woman discovers misbehavior of husband and starts FLR to save marriage. In two examples the husband had been seeing a professional dominatrix, in one at great expense. In another he had been substituting BDSM porn for attention to her. 4. Woman is "naturally dominant," learns techniques on her own or with female friends, and seeks out or naturally attracts submissive men.
Author: 2011-02-18 07:47:30 [reply]
Nerd Good points all, even on this site there are differences in how men/women get started with this. I think I read one did it over coffee from the first date and another after 20 years of marriage where she approached him. We (in my relationship) are still working it out. The laws of attraction will depend on the women. The survey says 43% like submissive men but I think they really mean confident strong men who will submit when required.
Reply by: 2011-02-18 13:42:09 [reply]
Guest if you do the math that leave 57% of women who want men who are not the submissive type. Bit of a guessing game still.
Reply by: 2011-02-18 15:41:44
Blog examples: http://www.femdom101.blogspot.com Initiation 3 (above). Husband had spent $20K with dominatrix, to whom wife later temporarily apprenticed herself. Level 3. Minimal kink but he kneels and kisses her feet daily and is trained to immediately lay down flat when she snaps her fingers. Often discusses other womens' similar FLRs. http://subservient-husband.blogspot.com Initiation 1. Level 3. http://womanincontrol.blogspot.com Initiation 4. Level 4. Husband was identified using "shoe dangle" method she claims is foolproof detector of submissive men. Husband is corporate CEO, and control was recently extended ovder his work time. http://sheisincharge.blogspot.com Initiation 1. Level likely 2.
Author: 2011-02-18 14:00:41 [reply]
Nerd I appreciate your enthusiasm, but those examples are just sex, not relationships of any kind. Relationships are about relating not just kinky sex. FemDom is not female led relationship, it is a way off the map fantasy which few will ever consider. Female led relationship is something many can enjoy and have great sex too - yes kinky sex if they want, but women in FLR is 65% as kinky as men and that is the way it will always be. Obedience, laying down flat or taking punishment are not a relationship.
Reply by: 2011-02-18 15:43:03 [reply]
Mack my gut tells me that sex is more important than relationship to some men. Women want a man to become more attractive to them and don`t want a simpering do anything boy, that is just so unproductive and the mental image I get of men in panties is awful. Might be fun in play but not any real life I know of.
Reply by: 2011-02-18 15:40:23
Mack On the femdom101 blog Kathy makes little mention of sex per se. It is all about the FLR. She controls all the Food Groups. His paycheck goes into her account, he gets a small cash allowance, and he is not allowed to know the finances. His disobedience is punished by things like digging a hole and burying a colored stick, then digging the stick up and burying it somewhere else. Or she takes away free time. He once backtalked her in a store during a trip and she bought a child's hair ribbon bow and made him wear it in public. She discusses her daughter's FLR and the FLR of another woman who privately collared her husband in a ceremony after her wedding with her bridesmaids in attendance. The second woman's friends all know her marriage is an FLR, but her in-laws just notice that her husband always does what she tells him. Kathy also discusses the problems of a Latin American woman who grew up in a macho culture and whose husband wants an FLR. Kathy discovered her husband's deep need to be obedient and submissive to a woman. He had spent a lot of money with a professional dominatrix that could have gone into family savings. She learned of his needs and to save their marriage worked out a rather strict Level 3 FLR that satisfies them both.
Reply by: 2011-02-18 17:52:22
Nerd I agree with your assessment but will you agree with me that "collaring" and "femdom101" suggest something greater than FLR or perhaps just extreme FLR? So if the loudest voices are on the esteem edge the view of FLR is skewed. She sounds like a bold and brave women who has the right relationship for her. I love that and celebrate it. What I resist is FemDom because I just can't see it working for the masses of men and women who want FLR level 1-3. I hope you understand my passions. I think we are becoming friends - thank you for your contributions.
Reply by: 2011-02-18 18:53:52
Ann You should read the beginning months of Kathy's femdom101 blog. While doing laundry, she had discovered panties in her husband's gym bag and thought he was having an affair. She goes through all the events and her feelings as she contacted the dominatrix her husband had been seeing, learned of his deep needs to be bossed around by women, and learned how the dominatrix treated men. She tells of meeting her husband at a cafe and telling him the conditions under which she would let him back in the house. If he accepted he was to kneel and kiss her feet in the crowded cafe. He did, and the remainder of the blog tells of their life together and of the lives of the dominant women who became her friends. It also tells of her transition from feelings similar to yours to feelings that some men "crave female authority in their lives" and that a wife has a duty to satisfy those needs.
Reply by: 2011-02-18 19:14:52
Mack Although the blog is called "femdom101" it is not a Level 4 FLR. It is a strict Level 3, perhaps a 3+. Kathy loves her husband and does what she needs to do to satisfy his very deep needs to be bossed by and to obey a woman. The Level 4 blog I give as an example discusses a lot of kinkiness and sex. It really is extreme control. There is another blog (http://forever-hers2010.blogspot.com) that was started by the husband after his wife discovered he had been seeing a dominatrix. It started as a Level 1 or 2. The wife now runs it and with influence from other women with Level 4 FLRs is now a solid Level 4. Some of the words are the same in femdom101 and womanincontrol, but their meanings are quite different. The details matter. I have to give the developers of this site a lot of credit for defining the levels. The "collaring" in femdom101 is a Level 3 ceremony and is used as a symbol of female control. The man may actually wear a collar on some occasions when his wife requires it. A collar in Level 4 is likely to be used for much more kinky purposes.
Reply by: 2011-02-18 19:57:26
Nerd I am likely just paranoid about the femdom words. I find it creepy. Loving relationships turn me on no matter what lifestyle.
Reply by: 2011-02-19 07:45:18 [reply]
Ann There is a lot of overlap between FemDom and FLR. In fact, the terms FLR and Loving Female Authority were invented to make the dominance/submission (non-BDSM, matriarchial) part of FemDom more palatable to women. Take a look at Retraining in the Articles section of this site. It suggests a lot of things to do the same as the D/s part of FemDom. All the relationships in the blogs I mentioned are very loving relationships. The womanincontrol blog is Level 4 with much BDSM, but the husband divorced his first wife because she didn't satisfy his deep needs. The recent postings on the blog describe a very punitive retraining process in which the wife greatly tightened her control. It resulted from the husband having prioritized business "power lunches" over his duties as a father to a married daughter. Even with the husband being seriously punished and now needing his wife's daily permission for his choice of food at lunch, the couple remains deeply in love. (If you read the blog, it is good to start with the early postings. In this case the early postings discuss how the couple met, her background, his initial training, and their relationship before he proposed marriage.)
Reply by: 2011-02-21 10:47:14
Ann Personally, I would rather never use or see the word 'Femdom' or 'FemDomme' or 'Domme'. To me it looks like 'Do-Me', which is a problem a lot of guys have from my perspective! However, the terms have been around for quite a few years now and are fairly standard. I do try to use other terms in order to create new vocabulary standards in this lifestyle.
Reply by: 2011-04-09 01:37:33
I have been fortunate to meet a Woman online who desires an FLR. She will, obviously, make the decision if we are to become a couple. Things look good so far. I don't believe that FLR's are something men invented... it is a natural type of relationship yet very hard to find. Being a submissive male, it's the type of relationship that I want with a Woman. I prefer that decisions are made for me, and I do not like being the Leader in a relationship.
Author: 2011-03-13 05:41:40 [reply]
1967_Olds Sounds like you'll fit in. We have all kinds of men and women here all interested in real life FLR. The best thing to do it practice practice practice until you are both comfortable.
Reply by: 2011-03-13 08:02:10 [reply]
If you want to know how power differences come about, watch children at play. It's really interesting to see the dynamics. My niece and nephew are 9yr old twins. She runs him and she already likes the control. When they sit down to eat, he's fine until she says she doesn't like something. Then he doesn't like it either. If she says it's time to run around the playground, he runs. I believe it's inherent in our personality, for whatever reason or wherever it comes from. I know that in my life I struggled until I accepted that I simply like control. Now I make sure I get my fix in healthy ways, and my relationships have never been healthier - nor happier over the past 13 years.
Author: 2011-04-09 01:41:46 [reply]
There is an interesting posting at submissivemale.blogspot.com titled "A Fierce Feminist Femdom Speaks Out." The posting is based on an interview conducted by the blogger with a woman, in which she lists the rules she expects men to follow in relationships with her. Her rules are substantially a Level 4 FLR in which she controls all food groups, to which she adds a fifth -- her man's wardrobe and grooming. She requires approval of what her man is wearing when he leaves for work or for another activity. An example of her free time rules is "He is expected to help where help is needed with members of my family." She says that sometimes, when they are together at home, she requires him to be naked, similar to what is described in this site's article on retraining. She also requires that her man enroll in womens' studies courses because she has "grown tired of trying to teach [her] male partner about gender issues so that he can understand [her] and what[she does]." This seems parallel to the program in MAG and Reputation Points. What she describes seems a solid Level 4.
Author: 2011-04-18 11:49:12 [reply]
Nerd There are so many flavors of feminist it would be hard to guess if she is one or not. Being in an FLR does not really require being one. Third wave feminism believe in complete equality and as such would not want level 1-4, they would gravitate towards 50/50, I am a feminist and believe that women are superior in some ways but that may not make them good at FLR. The idea of retraining a man or a woman to be good at something is so common to our western culture but seems to be woefully left out of interpersonal relationships.
Reply by: 2011-04-18 13:36:02 [reply]
Nerd I am not sure that I have seen your name on the MAG roster. I could be incorrect. I don't remember reading anything like you describe in my MAG materials. There is some information like you describe on the main site but as far as the course I have no recollection of that section. MAG, in my opinion, is not about retrainning anyone. In fact I don't remember the word re-trainning ever being used. To me the MAG course was to help men move torwards what women want in an effort to better thier releationships with women. Again I could be incorrect however the graph on the introductory page of the site indicates that a level 4 releationship is not what most women want. In fact satifaction levels fall at that level, if I read correctly. So no, in my opinion the MAG course does not parallel anything about a "A Fierce Feminist Femdom" Thank you gat1207
Reply by: 2011-04-18 14:30:28 [reply]
Gat1207 Well said, MAG is a way to normalize FLR I think. You are developing a strong voice. It will help the conversation.
Reply by: 2011-04-18 17:21:40
Gat1207 I'm not in MAG and don't plan to join. What I know about MAG is inferred from the postings. I value my anonymity and am not looking for a new relationship. My wife and I have had about a level 1.5 FLR for many years and for various reasons involvement as a couple will not serve to move that further up the scale. I do think that certain aspects of our life together would have been better had she taken a stronger role in the past.
Reply by: 2011-04-24 19:50:45
Nerd I like the idea of expectations better than rules. Rules sound so religious. Nerd are you in a level 4? Is that why your posts point that way, just curious? I am a big fan of self control.
Reply by: 2011-04-18 16:59:05 [reply]
Guest I'm not in a level 4. I read many FLR blogs and discuss them here. Many of them are level 3 or 4 and do have formal rules.
Reply by: 2011-04-24 20:00:26
Nerd I think the ideas are similar but MAG is not about controlling someone by rules or even changing them per say (though it does have a re socialization elements to help men adapt to female leadership and help empower women by getting the support they want) it is about changing the way men are looking, so they are looking at their women and moving in that direction. I can see a parallel between that and training, taking courses and reading women's magazines etc. I think of it like the direction a man's head is turned. Are they looking out at porn or in at their wife - there is a good visualization. I fully approve of men taking courses, a lifetime of learning is a good idea. I also approve of people who want level 4 relationships. Nerd a lot of people (most who are into FLR) have real questions about level 4 because if is so comparable to femdom. If you want a good visual look at the article modeling FLR as a graph and see how FemDom and even level 4 is different from most of FLR as people are currently experimenting with it. most women who come to this site say they want about a 2.5 FLR. All those charts came from data from 3200 people into FLR. 72% of women are looking at less than 4. Once again interesting conversation, thanks.
Reply by: 2011-04-18 17:19:55 [reply]
Prickly Pear It is interesting that the women in the introductions pilot who have identified their level preferences average out to 3.5+. (It would be exactly 3.5 but one woman expressed a preference for "beyond 4.") Could this mean that a woman's preferred level tends to increase the more she learns about FLR?
Reply by: 2011-04-30 19:58:20
Nerd I think more to the point is the women looking are 3-4 in introductions but in the surveys of hundreds of women 2.4 is about the norm. You might be right that the more women know about flr the more they want. I will study that. It is a good idea.
Reply by: 2011-04-30 22:32:51
Prickly Pear I think you might find an interesting case in the FLR documented at msmariedmx.blogspot.com. In two years, she went from a level 0 to beyond 4. In a May 2 posting she has a paragraph describing her transition "grabbing the reigns of [their] lifestyle." She has several postings on the blog titled "Then and Now" that tell about how her husband was a tyrant before and how now she is in complete control. The relationship has a fairly high level of kink, documented with many pictures. Had she answered a survey at the start, I can imagine her being a level 0.5 at best. After a couple of years in control she has progressed to an actual "beyond 4," with her pictures proving the point.
Reply by: 2011-05-03 08:25:27
Prickly Pear Nerd I am familar with the about which you write. It is little more than commercial porn with a direct link to kink.com the biggest of the big.
Reply by: 2011-05-03 14:03:58
Guest I watch that blog and do not get the flavor of commercial porn from it. I don't see any commercialism there. I have seen commercial porn sites (although I don't go beyond their free public pages) and this does not have their external characteristics. There are a group of sites whose bloggers watch each other and trade ideas. They are all at least level 3 to beyond 4. That blog is part of that community. Some of them use or link to pictures or videos on commercial porn sites to illustrate their ideas, but that is as far as it goes. (Actually the most recent video link on that blog is to a scene from The King and I where the king of Siam insists that Anna's head be lower than his. The blogger says she sometimes does that with her husband.)
Reply by: 2011-05-03 17:08:56
Nerd I want to agree with Guest I reviewed the site and I think it is a porn site that internet people call "a feeder site". Something to wet the appetite of the reader. I'd like to meet these couples and interview them for this website. I've known couples like the one depicted on that website but their relationships don`t seem to last very long.
Reply by: 2011-05-04 06:11:53
SusanM88 Interviewing blog couples for this site would be wonderful, if you could do it. There are several sites that would be interesting interviews, including (all *.blogspot.com) femdom101, worshippingyourwife, spankedbymylady, msmariedmx, womanincontrol, servingb, and forever-hers2010. You can probably always make contact by commenting, some have chat capability, others seem to make contact off-blog by email (because they mention emails). Also many of these blogs have lists of other blogs they follow, and you will often find bloggers nicknames on comments. If the commenter has a blog, it will be listed on their profile. That may lead you to other interesting couples. Regarding "feeder sites" there are some sites that definitely frequently link to commercial porn sites. I would agree on those, but am sceptical about your putting others in that category. I hope you are successful in getting interviews and look forward to your reports.
Reply by: 2011-05-04 08:36:46
SusanM88 Two more blogs for the list: subservient-husband and obedientlover
Reply by: 2011-05-04 08:51:15
SusanM88 FYI, per recently posted comments on her blog, Kathy of femdom101's email address is Kathy4563@gmail.com. BTW, regarding the 70000 questions article on level 3/4, you should look at Kathy's recently posted comments on feminization and her recent comments on an incident where she humiliated her husband by making him wear a child's hair ribbon. In summary, she says that men who wear panties are easier to control, but it shouldn't go much beyond that, and that she thinks she overdid the hair ribbon punishment. Otherwise, I think the conclusions in that article are consistent with many of the FLR blogs, especially those run by women.
Reply by: 2011-05-15 12:32:12
Nerd You must have read a different article than I did, I thought it said women are for the most part against stuff like men in panties. I am okay with it but I can't see how it applies for most of us and it is not for me. Yuck to men wearing panties from this female blogger. Yuck to sissy men. I like mine the old fashion way - masculine and obedient. Yet let everyone enjoy what they will, that's my motto.
Reply by: 2011-05-15 14:55:34
Guest (Oops. I have to remember to make the gender selection.) She mainly doesn't like feminization, that agrees with the article. She does like her husband masculine and obedient. Others in her circle of FLR women friends do like men in panties and she keeps her husband in panties as a carryover from when he was seeing a professional dominatrix. She talks about going with some FLR women friends to a store and all buying frilly panties for their husbands. She says they didn't fit him. She talks about other clothing options she prefers (or allows).
Reply by: 2011-05-15 17:21:36
Just following up on the discussion almost a year ago about the level selected by women in the introductions system. It still seems to be running around 3.5, with the occasional 2 being more than balanced by the "beyond 4's." It seems that once a woman is introduced to FLR and fully understands the alternatives, she wants control in all areas, the final word on all matters, and a man who at least accepts her decisions (possibly after discussion per level 3) or may need to be unquestioningly obedient (per level 4). Beyond 4 is not described in the food group discussions but probably implies that she wants absolute control and obedience, plus a high level of kink.
Author: 2012-03-19 13:34:29 [reply]
Things are not always what they seem. Whilst I have no reason to doubt that the men initiates the FLR in the majority of the cases, and are the most enthusiastic ones initially, I have read that in many cases, once the women DO get interested, not seldom, they start becoming the ones pushing for a higher FLR level, and more control. The man, once confronted with a real relationship, and real submission, starts to shy away. I have no experience of my own to testify this, but it would be really interesting to hear from others who have.
Author: 2012-04-06 12:32:08 [reply]